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Millso

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Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 417
Reply with quote  #1 
Hello all,

Just wondering what qualifications are needed to get a job within a HS... what does the job entail and how are foreign coaches viewed when applying for positions?

I'm not in a position yet but am considering my options for the long term once i've completed my degree (Bsc Psychology with Childhood studies).


TJBrown

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 2,813
Reply with quote  #2 
It will vary from state to state and even school district to school district.

The minimums are usally along the lines of:

* National Ferderation of High School Athletic Associations Fundamentals of Coaching certificate

* PAV or Pupil Activity Validation Certificate. This process includes basic first aid / sports medicine primers as well as submitting your finger prints to the FBI database for a background check

* Valid CPR certificate

And then all the variables, the biggest in our area being preference given to qualified applicants that hold teaching certificates / teach in the school systems.

You need to know and understand that there is supposedly no such thing as a "more" qualified applicant, especially when deciding between a member of the teachers union and a candidate from "outside" the school system.

(Edit) In the school district my sons attend, half of the head coaches are not otherwise employed by the school and roughly 50% of the assistant coaches are not otherwise employed by the school. (end edit)

* And if you think you can make a living serving only as a high school soccer coach, well, you cannot. I do not know of any high school coach in any sport that relies on his / her income from the position to support him/herself let alone a family.





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EricMcGrath

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 7,792
Reply with quote  #3 
Agree with everything TJ said above.

Additionally, there are also Private schools where some of the above do not apply. They have their own rules and requirements. But generally, most schools are public schools (not the same as English public schools. They are the same as private schools. Public schools are more like state schools? Confused? You will be )

If you're lucky enough to be in an area where being a teacher/part of school system isn't necessary, you still run into another set of hurdles, such as "Are you the Athletic Director's buddy?", "Does your family have a sporting history in the High School?" and "How much do you donate to the booster club?"


As for salary - I would hazard a guess that the average salary for a HS soccer coach nationwide clocks in at under $5000 per year. There are probably a few HS coaches who earn more than that, but most will earn less.

The season is generally only 10-12 weeks long, and also in some states you can't have any coaching contact of any description with your players outside of that 10-12 weeks, save for some days when you can do non-sport-specific training, i.e. you can do fitness training but no ball work. Breach of that rule can lead to both the coach and the school to get suspended.

Having said all that, if you're over here in a different profession and manage to land a HS gig, it's an amazing experience. It is like a mini professional season, with everything from squad rotation, paying crowds (I've seen crowds for state soccer championships that dwarfed the average and highest attendance at Irish Pro league soccer games), rabid fan base, periodization, man-management, media (you and the players get interviewed for both Print and sometimes local TV), awards, and the danger of the sack

Outside of that, possibly even more than club, the chance to positively impact young people on a day-to-day basis and see them grow over 4 years at a time is a rich experience that I will miss when I stop doing it, but will refer back to however high the level I end up coaching at.

If you get a chance to come over on your BSc, definitely look for opportunities to coach HS. It's a great thing that is criminally underused by US soccer, but that's for another thread.

TheGiss

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Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 5,523
Reply with quote  #4 
TJ (who is in the same state as I am) and Eric are pretty much right on, except for the need to manage both players and parents. In Ohio, public head coaches make between $4k-$7500. Assistants, $2K-4K.
Big differences between private schools and public schools.
Many private schools pay half that. Others pay a living wage. Others still allow the coach to use the school facilities to train his club teams as a perk, or to run camps at the school facilities and keep all profits. At most public schools, those funds must be acounted for to the Athletic Director, who is your "boss."
As to the Fundamentals of Coaching Certificate, that is being phased in for previous coaches as they renew their pavs. Thefre is no waiver for any other licensure. As I have posted elsewhere, if Bob Bradley gets fired after the World Cup and accepts an Oho HS coaching job, he must pass the fundamentals of coaching course.
Many assistant coaching jobs go crying for qualified people and right now in Ohio, I am aware of at least 15 head coach openings. Twice that many at he assistant/jv level. We need a JV head coach for our boys program, in fact.
I am in the process of hiring a well-known ex-pro as an assistant, but we have found him private training, a club team to coach, several camp opportunities and more to supplement his income.


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paulee

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Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 7,615
Reply with quote  #5 
And just to show you how confusing the whole thing can be: In Texas, you cannot coach unless you are already an employee of the school district, and in many districts, depending on the rules, you must be a teacher.  We also have the same contact rules that TJ and Eric mention, but we also have an athletic period in our school day, which means we see our kids for 9 months out of the year, and we can do whatever we want with them within that athletic period.  So we have our kids touching a ball 9 months out of the year (Not that it always makes much of a difference with them).  And just to further confuse the matter, private schools have their own rules for hiring coaches.

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TheGiss

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Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 5,523
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulee
And just to show you how confusing the whole thing can be: In Texas, you cannot coach unless you are already an employee of the school district, and in many districts, depending on the rules, you must be a teacher.  We also have the same contact rules that TJ and Eric mention, but we also have an athletic period in our school day, which means we see our kids for 9 months out of the year, and we can do whatever we want with them within that athletic period.  So we have our kids touching a ball 9 months out of the year (Not that it always makes much of a difference with them).  And just to further confuse the matter, private schools have their own rules for hiring coaches.


Even better- in Ohio if you are a classified employee of the school district (non-teacher, basically) you cannot coach. Teachers, as TJ stated, by law get preference.

Eric said:
The season is generally only 10-12 weeks long, and also in some states you can't have any coaching contact of any description with your players outside of that 10-12 weeks, save for some days when you can do non-sport-specific training, i.e. you can do fitness training but no ball work. Breach of that rule can lead to both the coach and the school to get suspended

And in others you get ten days of soccer instructional work and unlimited fitness training. And in many states, there are limits when your team can be together.
Indoor wall ball and futsal, no limits in Ohio. Indoor played with modified outdoor rules, no more than 5 players from your squad may play together. There is an exemption from June 1-July 31. (Again, the Ohio rule)

Not trying to scare you off

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wmitcham

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 134
Reply with quote  #7 

Wow 4-7K? In GA, as both Varsity and JV coach, I get $1750. Like Texas and a few others, we also have to be employed by the district. Although, that may not be hard and fast throughout GA.

Millso

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Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 417
Reply with quote  #8 
No no its all good I don't scare easily

It doesn't sound like a realistic option if the money is so low... How about college level?

From this side of the pond it looks like there are lots of opportunities to earn a reasonable living $30 to $50k per year, hell when I was working for MLS I was offered $30k and accommodation to stay as a PDO and thats when I didn't have a degree and was only an FA level 2 coach...

Surely with a degree and if I do my UEFA A license there would be some opportunities to earn a decent living somewhere?

I just cant see a way into professional football over here at the minute, I have worked and earn't reasonable money coaching over here but the jobs have dried up with the current financial plight...



EricMcGrath

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 7,792
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millso
No no its all good I don't scare easily

It doesn't sound like a realistic option if the money is so low... How about college level?

From this side of the pond it looks like there are lots of opportunities to earn a reasonable living $30 to $50k per year, hell when I was working for MLS I was offered $30k and accommodation to stay as a PDO and thats when I didn't have a degree and was only an FA level 2 coach...

Surely with a degree and if I do my UEFA A license there would be some opportunities to earn a decent living somewhere?

I just cant see a way into professional football over here at the minute, I have worked and earn't reasonable money coaching over here but the jobs have dried up with the current financial plight...





I think we've talked about this before? I can't remember right now, it was either you or someone else, but an alternative route into pro football is the way to go.

College soccer over here? A good thing to get into, but again, for the most part, you wouldn't make a living at it. If you want to be an X's and O's manager at the top level, there are other ways to get there. You seem willing to move around, but perhaps you should look at your degree and maybe turn it into a masters in something that can be useful to clubs outside of actual coaching?

How old are you again?

Millso

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Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 417
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricMcGrath

I think we've talked about this before? I can't remember right now, it was either you or someone else, but an alternative route into pro football is the way to go.

College soccer over here? A good thing to get into, but again, for the most part, you wouldn't make a living at it. If you want to be an X's and O's manager at the top level, there are other ways to get there. You seem willing to move around, but perhaps you should look at your degree and maybe turn it into a masters in something that can be useful to clubs outside of actual coaching?

How old are you again?



I dont think we've talked about this stuff before... definately not in any detail anyway

I can do a masters in sports psychology (which is something I am considering anyway) if you think that would make a dramatic difference? I have also worked as an unqualified teacher for a couple of years so am registered as a teacher (of sorts) with the local council who could write teaching references.

Not massively bothered about moving around, I love the bits of America I have spent time in and will do whatever is required (within reason) to work full time coaching a team.

I'm 26 and married - no kids but 2 dogs
tericson

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 619
Reply with quote  #11 
With that degree you could go the Alternative Certification route in Texas and get hired on as a teacher/coach and take some courses during the school year to get a Texas teaching certificate.

Alternative certification is a process that someone with a Bachelors degree or higher goes about getting certified to teach without earning an undergraduate degree in education.

Starting teacher salaries are approximately 40K and the coaching stipends normally range from 4k to 8k.   You would also have the summers off to work soccer camps.  Texas has a low cost of living and a pretty good economy right now.
EricMcGrath

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 7,792
Reply with quote  #12 
I tried to go the ARC path. With a foreign degree, there are a few hoops to jump through first, not least because non-US degrees are often done differently than US ones. For example, my degree is in Philosophy. We studied only philosophy (and some psychology) over the 4 years. There were no non-philosophy electives or general education pre-requisites. So when I go to apply my degree to further education here, it means I have to go and do pre-requisites first, apparently. Just something to be aware of.
TheGiss

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Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 5,523
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millso
No no its all good I don't scare easily

It doesn't sound like a realistic option if the money is so low... How about college level?

From this side of the pond it looks like there are lots of opportunities to earn a reasonable living $30 to $50k per year, hell when I was working for MLS I was offered $30k and accommodation to stay as a PDO and thats when I didn't have a degree and was only an FA level 2 coach...

Surely with a degree and if I do my UEFA A license there would be some opportunities to earn a decent living somewhere?

I just cant see a way into professional football over here at the minute, I have worked and earn't reasonable money coaching over here but the jobs have dried up with the current financial plight...





Keep in mind, your HS responsibilties are (depending on the state) about 3 months long. The young man I am in the process of hiring will also make $2500 as a middle school boys assistant. So that is $6500 in 3 months just from school with the two assistant positions. We have already gotten him over $2k in private training, with at least that much more to come before fall. Add another $6K as the our travel organizations footskills trainer, over the spring, fall and winter, plus camp work and coaching a club team, and he will make about $20K in 9 months. If he does well and sells himself (and I am helping him that ancillary money-- private training, club, footskills and camps should increase.

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TomK

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 1,875
Reply with quote  #14 
In AL,  the head soccer coach gets something like $1500 from the state, but the booster cub generally supplements that at the better soccer schools.  A faculty representative is required at all games, but doesn't do much actual coaching.  There is another local school at which a faculty member is a head coach.  I have heard that their booster club is unable to replace him if he wants the job because faculty gets priority.

Our coach gets a great deal more than the base pay.  I don't think the hourly rate works out that well, but he was rewarded by his team winning the state championship in his second year. *

* - backhanded way of bragging about my son's team

Millso

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Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 417
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGiss
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millso
No no its all good I don't scare easily

It doesn't sound like a realistic option if the money is so low... How about college level?

From this side of the pond it looks like there are lots of opportunities to earn a reasonable living $30 to $50k per year, hell when I was working for MLS I was offered $30k and accommodation to stay as a PDO and thats when I didn't have a degree and was only an FA level 2 coach...

Surely with a degree and if I do my UEFA A license there would be some opportunities to earn a decent living somewhere?

I just cant see a way into professional football over here at the minute, I have worked and earn't reasonable money coaching over here but the jobs have dried up with the current financial plight...





Keep in mind, your HS responsibilties are (depending on the state) about 3 months long. The young man I am in the process of hiring will also make $2500 as a middle school boys assistant. So that is $6500 in 3 months just from school with the two assistant positions. We have already gotten him over $2k in private training, with at least that much more to come before fall. Add another $6K as the our travel organizations footskills trainer, over the spring, fall and winter, plus camp work and coaching a club team, and he will make about $20K in 9 months. If he does well and sells himself (and I am helping him that ancillary money-- private training, club, footskills and camps should increase.


Cheers guys, you can create bits and bobs like your describing over here but I was  hoping it would be a chance to work with a single team, my last job was £15k working as a skills coach, before that was £9k as an U18's college teams assistant manager (12 hours per week), but these types of jobs are few and far between at the moment with most organizations looking to get you on a very low hourly contract in case they lose business and most of the opportunities are coaching primary school children.

I was made redundant 2 years ago (before starting university) as I was the highest paid coach within an organization and they said that although my clubs and schools all loved me but they had lost business elsewhere and could get in 3 apprentice coaches for the money they were paying me so had to let me go... luckily one of the schools I worked in offered me a nigh on full time job teaching football and gymnastics (I have a level 1 but hate it ), the point is I dont really want to work as a skills coach anymore, I have done it for the best part of 10 years since leaving school working for a number of professional clubs in thier community departments and although its ok I prefer to work with adults and young adults and hoped that my qualifications may open up more opportunities...


Millso

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Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 417
Reply with quote  #16 
On a side note, do any of you have any decent contacts within the MLS or college football as I've got a lad who's plays for me at the moment who wants to play in the states and is looking for trials... Not sure on the protocol but he's just 17 and is at college over here.
JimN

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 3,942
Reply with quote  #17 
Send me an email at futboljim@comcast.net


We have a kid coming from wales, and I think another coming from England next year to our junior college. We are allowed, I believe, four internationals, and i think we have one spot left. I believe there will be a kid from Ghana also attending, whose cousin lives here.

Junior college is where some spend the first two years of their college life, then go on to a four year school. It is easier to get into for kids from other countries if they want to play a sport - the NCAA has some tougher rules than the governing body for junior colleges.

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newsocdad

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 1,452
Reply with quote  #18 
One thing to keep in  mind in coaching high school soccer is that you need to have a work schedule that accomodates practices and games.  Practices are typically right after school -- say 3:00 to 4:30.  Games can be after school or evening.  It's not a schedule that is easy to work around if you have a job other than teaching. 
TheGiss

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Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 5,523
Reply with quote  #19 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newsocdad
One thing to keep in  mind in coaching high school soccer is that you need to have a work schedule that accomodates practices and games.  Practices are typically right after school -- say 3:00 to 4:30.  Games can be after school or evening.  It's not a schedule that is easy to work around if you have a job other than teaching. 

Due to the dearth of teacher-coaches, there is more and more a trend away from right after school training...not everywhere, but many schools now train 5-7, sometimes to accomodate the coaches, but often due to field usage.


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KHS

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 84
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmitcham

Wow 4-7K? In GA, as both Varsity and JV coach, I get $1750. Like Texas and a few others, we also have to be employed by the district. Although, that may not be hard and fast throughout GA.



This just goes to show how different the pay can be even in the same state.  I'm in GA as well, and as a varsity coach, get around 3K, plus a little more from the booster club. 

In my district, the head coach is required to be a certified teacher.  Some schools who don't have any teachers who know the game will hire a trainer to do all of the actual work, but the teacher still gets the 3K stipend, usually just for creating the schedule and sitting on the bench during games.

It's interesting to hear the differences in how HS is run in different parts of the country.
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