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Coach94

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Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 158
Reply with quote  #21 
Again, this goes back to what CVAL says.  Are you doing this as a training opportunity for your players, or are you in it for a chance at a trip to regionals?

If you're in it for the development aspect, maybe go with 6, since you'll give more kids a chance to play.  And, if development is your goal, don't shy away from the supposed "weak" kids.  I've found that, especially at the ages you're talking about, there are some kids who struggle in full-sided play that really take to 3v3.  The reverse holds true also...I've seen plenty of strong full-sided players who don't excel at 3v3 at all.  

Either way I'd go with at least 5 players, especially if you're playing 2-3 games in one day.

3v3 requires a very high work rate - you'll want to roll your subs every 2-3 minutes.  It can be done with 4, but IMO it's not preferable.
ParentCoach

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 215
Reply with quote  #22 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwell100
What do you think about the number of players to carry on a team.  We will be in the Kick It 3v3 and the max. roster spots are 6.  I would like to have four or five players.  My main concern is to not have any very weak players, since everyone will get pretty equal playing time.  I am thinking of going with 4 strong rather than 4 strong and 1 weak.  Same for 5 strong rather than 5 strong and 1 weak.

What do you think?

Had 5 last year and a goal of making nationals.  We had 3 or 4 games on Saturdays, with 2 to 4 on Sundays.  A few times, one player missed a game -- those games were hard.  We played in the midwest -- Lexington, Cincinnati, Tennesse -- it was 90 degrees or hotter.  (If you have to play through the Chicago regional -- they had 5 games on one day in our age group.)

This year, we have 6, but we're developmental this time around.   With six, you can go 3v3 in practice without involving adults or siblings - that is a bonus.

One other negative of having 4 -- if the game is going against you, you've only got one player on the sideline with whom to send in a new strategy.  When we had five, we could send in a new strategy with two players at once and actually impact the game.  We couldn't do that with just one sub.  With the six players this year, we've got them divided so there will basically be two different styles of play when we change line-ups.
JohnR

Registered: 03/24/04
Posts: 6,793
Reply with quote  #23 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwell100
What strategies do you use for scoring if it is not off a goal kick?  I have heard shoot at every opportunity.

Probably works at a certain level, but not when the opponents are good. Then, you need to know how to be patient.

The best 3v3 teams are like the best basketball teams. The seize the fast-break opportunities when they get them, and are lightning on the countertattack. But when they don't get an easy opportunity, they don't rush it. They pull the ball back, probe, maintain possession, and work for a good shot. You want a shot that has a 10% or better chance of scoring, not a hasty bomb from 15 yards against a smart, experienced defender who is standing in front of the goal.
WillieB

Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 5,630
Reply with quote  #24 
This whole topic has got to be the biggest f****** joke ever on this forum, even beats Mick10 and his Got Milk 3v3.

3v3, goal kicks, corners, sweeper, tournaments, tactics, set moves, trying to score off goal kicks, shoot from anywhere, next you'll tell me there is offside as well.

3v3 should be used as a development tool and only after the players are comfortable with and understand the principles of 4v4.

Further jusification for keeping adults as far away as possible from the childrens' game.



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A wise man once told me never argue with an idiot as bystanders may not be able to tell the difference.
first_touch

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Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 2,740
Reply with quote  #25 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieB
This whole topic has got to be the biggest f****** joke ever on this forum, even beats Mick10 and his Got Milk 3v3.

3v3, goal kicks, corners, sweeper, tournaments, tactics, set moves, trying to score off goal kicks, shoot from anywhere, next you'll tell me there is offside as well.

3v3 should be used as a development tool and only after the players are comfortable with and understand the principles of 4v4.

Further jusification for keeping adults as far away as possible from the childrens' game.



Pass and move.  All other issues are details. 

3v3 off side is actually the opposite of normal soccer- you must be across the half way line or you cannot score.



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go1

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 196
Reply with quote  #26 
WillieB,

3v3 is a for-fun tournament (usually with small trophies and small bragging rights). They play from U6, U7, U8, U9, U10 . . . all the way up to Adult categories in these tournaments.

The general rules are . . .no offsides. No throwins (kick-ins instead). Small field. No goalie. Kickoffs can be any direction. Scores must be from the offensive side of the field. Substitutions on the fly. Your first day of tournament is to get your seeding, your 2nd day is for the playoffs.

Whatever you are talking about is not what these people are talking about. We are talking about a tournament for fun, which has no bearing on divisions, but is played from Ulittles, all the way up to Adult categories.

So you have an idea what people are talking about, here are some websites that host national tournaments (its not only kids): 
http://www.3v3soccer.com/
http://www.3v3live.com/index.php
http://www.quickfoot.com/index.asp

Cheers

Ned

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4,990
Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieB
This whole topic has got to be the biggest f****** joke ever on this forum, even beats Mick10 and his Got Milk 3v3.

3v3, goal kicks, corners, sweeper, tournaments, tactics, set moves, trying to score off goal kicks, shoot from anywhere, next you'll tell me there is offside as well.

3v3 should be used as a development tool and only after the players are comfortable with and understand the principles of 4v4.

Further jusification for keeping adults as far away as possible from the childrens' game.




I must admit I was thinking exactly the same thing.  3v3 strategy for U8's and U10's?  The only strategy should be to make sure they don't play when it's too hot, that they have fun and that someone buys them an ice cream afterwards.

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AFB

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Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 6,360
Reply with quote  #28 
Ned,

Got in Himmel, we agree.  I think the 3v3 tournament, especially "Nationals" at U12 and below is insane.  Then again I do not like 3v3 formats, despite John R.'s attempts to persuade me otherwise.  I think the rules, e.g. not being able to enter the area around the goal, lead to bad habits.  Plain 4v4 is better and allows the game to teach support.

I wonder why some one needs to ask about the "strategy" of 3v3?  If it is similar to soccer the strategy should be the same.  If it is not similar, what are we teaching the players?

__________________
Some wisdom from Winston Churchill:

"Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened."

"You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life."

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they’ve tried everything else."
JohnR

Registered: 03/24/04
Posts: 6,793
Reply with quote  #29 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFB
I wonder why some one needs to ask about the "strategy" of 3v3?  If it is similar to soccer the strategy should be the same.  If it is not similar, what are we teaching the players?

Fair enough.

I would answer, it's very much soccer except for the youngers, except with the silly set pieces and the unfortunate necessity that the final defender often needs to stand in front of the goal, in the absence of a goalkeeper. But otherwise, all the basic principles -- ball control, movement off the ball, far post runs, striking the ball cleanly, anticipation, 1v1, 2v1, 2v2, knowing when to play quickly and when to hold up the ball. What's not to like?

Become teenagers, and the game becomes more of a chess match, probe, probe, probe, with little action and little running. Interesting enough in its own way, and perhaps good for certain skill enhancement, but not enough action/physicality/motion to truly be "soccerlike."
go1

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 196
Reply with quote  #30 
I like 3v3 because I can grab 3 of my friends and enter a team.  No need for a coach, just go play.  Its a fun format.  In other words . . . its fun. 
WillieB

Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 5,630
Reply with quote  #31 

Quote:
Originally Posted by go1
I like 3v3 because I can grab 3 of my friends and enter a team.  No need for a coach, just go play.  Its a fun format.  In other words . . . its fun. 


Isn't 1+3 = 4?


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A wise man once told me never argue with an idiot as bystanders may not be able to tell the difference.
JohnR

Registered: 03/24/04
Posts: 6,793
Reply with quote  #32 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieB
Isn't 1=3 = 4?

Three on the field, one as a sub.

WillieB

Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 5,630
Reply with quote  #33 

Quote:
Originally Posted by go1
WillieB,

3v3 is a for-fun tournament (usually with small trophies and small bragging rights). They play from U6, U7, U8, U9, U10 . . . all the way up to Adult categories in these tournaments.

The general rules are . . .no offsides. No throwins (kick-ins instead). Small field. No goalie. Kickoffs can be any direction. Scores must be from the offensive side of the field. Substitutions on the fly. Your first day of tournament is to get your seeding, your 2nd day is for the playoffs.

Whatever you are talking about is not what these people are talking about. We are talking about a tournament for fun, which has no bearing on divisions, but is played from Ulittles, all the way up to Adult categories.  Doesn't sound like it to me, seedings, playoffs, tournaments, bragging rights - reality check needed.

So you have an idea what people are talking about, here are some websites that host national tournaments (its not only kids): 
http://www.3v3soccer.com/
http://www.3v3live.com/index.php
http://www.quickfoot.com/index.asp

Cheers



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A wise man once told me never argue with an idiot as bystanders may not be able to tell the difference.
CVAL

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Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 2,932
Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieB

Quote:
Originally Posted by go1
WillieB,

3v3 is a for-fun tournament (usually with small trophies and small bragging rights). They play from U6, U7, U8, U9, U10 . . . all the way up to Adult categories in these tournaments.

The general rules are . . .no offsides. No throwins (kick-ins instead). Small field. No goalie. Kickoffs can be any direction. Scores must be from the offensive side of the field. Substitutions on the fly. Your first day of tournament is to get your seeding, your 2nd day is for the playoffs.

Whatever you are talking about is not what these people are talking about. We are talking about a tournament for fun, which has no bearing on divisions, but is played from Ulittles, all the way up to Adult categories.  Doesn't sound like it to me, seedings, playoffs, tournaments, bragging rights - reality check needed.

So you have an idea what people are talking about, here are some websites that host national tournaments (its not only kids): 
http://www.3v3soccer.com/
http://www.3v3live.com/index.php
http://www.quickfoot.com/index.asp

Cheers



Yes some people go over board with 3v3. The whole atmosphere is just fun. It is a fast paced game the kids love playing the parents like watching it and makes the kids better players.

If you would like the kids have a chance to go to disney to play for a "national championship" does it matter what they call it? The kids get to go to Disney and the tournament is well run.

Ultimately 3v3 makes the kids better players and makes them like soccer nothing wrong with that.

go1

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 196
Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieB

Quote:
Originally Posted by go1
I like 3v3 because I can grab 3 of my friends and enter a team. No need for a coach, just go play. Its a fun format. In other words . . . its fun.


Isn't 1+3 = 4?



Yes, and 5+2 = 7, but what does that have to do with anything?

By the way, why do you post so much here if you have so much disdain for what people say here?  I saw what you posted here:  http://www.worldclasscoaching.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=35524&an=0&page=0#Post35524
Sounds to me like you dislike anything we do in the USA regarding soccer.
jwell100

Registered: 06/15/07
Posts: 38
Reply with quote  #36 
My whole point in posting this question is to learn how to coach 3v3 with the intent for the U10 team to go to the national championship.  Yes, the main point is for fun, but the U10 girls are a very good team.  They have won their A division for ever since U8, are one of the top teams in the state and they like to win.  It would also be fun for the girls to qualify for the National championship.  This team is not over the top in terms of competitiveness, they just love the game and like to win.  Being a first time 3v3 coach, I was hoping for, and received, info that may help them reach their goal without me getting in the way.
JohnR

Registered: 03/24/04
Posts: 6,793
Reply with quote  #37 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwell100
My whole point in posting this question is to learn how to coach 3v3 with the intent for the U10 team to go to the national championship.

Oooh, that'll make Willie mad.

My son has been to Nationals 4x, won a couple of times, been in the hunt the rest. Friend of his has been on a team that also won, and that got 3rd another time. So I'm pretty familiar with this territory. And I'm telling you, don't get wrapped up in the cute stuff. Be disciplined, intelligent, move well off the ball, be creative with the dribble when necessary, and you'll be fine. You might not win, but you'll do as well as your talent will allow you.

And don't overcoach! Give them general instructions, but let the kids figure it out otherwise. They'll be happier if you are quieter, they'll probably play better, and they'll learn more.
AFB

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Registered: 02/16/04
Posts: 6,360
Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFB
I wonder why some one needs to ask about the "strategy" of 3v3?  If it is similar to soccer the strategy should be the same.  If it is not similar, what are we teaching the players?

Fair enough.

I would answer, it's very much soccer except for the youngers, except with the silly set pieces and the unfortunate necessity that the final defender often needs to stand in front of the goal, in the absence of a goalkeeper. But otherwise, all the basic principles -- ball control, movement off the ball, far post runs, striking the ball cleanly, anticipation, 1v1, 2v1, 2v2, knowing when to play quickly and when to hold up the ball. What's not to like?

Become teenagers, and the game becomes more of a chess match, probe, probe, probe, with little action and little running. Interesting enough in its own way, and perhaps good for certain skill enhancement, but not enough action/physicality/motion to truly be "soccerlike."


What's not to like -

Let's see  . . .

Pell Mell pace that is not soccer like and does not teach pacing;

Rules that distort certain actions, such as not entering the goal area so no reward for following the shot or encourage the player to dump the ball out of touch when under pressure;

Rarely any change of positioning on the field;

Poor support roles and too simplified tactics;

Oh, and National Championships at U10 that are largely meaningless and lead to a false sense of accomplishment or ability.

Better to play 4v4 and learn the game.  If you want a vacation with soccer and cannot find enough others to go with you to have a soccer game, maybe a hygiene issue needs to be addressed. 




__________________
Some wisdom from Winston Churchill:

"Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened."

"You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life."

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they’ve tried everything else."
JohnR

Registered: 03/24/04
Posts: 6,793
Reply with quote  #39 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFB
Pell Mell pace that is not soccer like and does not teach pacing

I'll see a lot more pell mell at Region II U14 championships this weekend, my friend. In fact, a lot of those guys can't play 3v3 for diddly, because they don't know what to do if they're not sprinting from box to box, chasing a ball.

Quote:
Rules that distort certain actions, such as not entering the goal area so no reward for following the shot or encourage the player to dump the ball out of touch when under pressure


Goal area is small, so there are actually plenty of chances to pounce on rebounds.

Quote:
Rarely any change of positioning on the field


True enough.

Quote:
Poor support roles and too simplified tactics


True enough.

Quote:
Oh, and National Championships at U10 that are largely meaningless and lead to a false sense of accomplishment or ability.


Well, that's not the fault of the 3v3 format, per se.
WillieB

Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 5,630
Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by go1
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieB

Quote:
Originally Posted by go1
I like 3v3 because I can grab 3 of my friends and enter a team. No need for a coach, just go play. Its a fun format. In other words . . . its fun.


Isn't 1+3 = 4?



Yes, and 5+2 = 7, but what does that have to do with anything?

Why would you want 25% of your "squad" standing on the sidelines?  Isn't 3v3 meant to be about fun?  What fun can a kid have standing at the sidelines watching the game?  You only need 3 players in each team to play 3v3 so why not just grab two of your friends?

By the way, why do you post so much here if you have so much disdain for what people say here?  I saw what you posted here:  http://www.worldclasscoaching.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=35524&an=0&page=0#Post35524
Sounds to me like you dislike anything we do in the USA regarding soccer.


And I've said much the same here so what point are you trying to make?  I'd even suggest that my post on the other forum was mild compared to what I've posted here.

YOU MAY NOT REALISE IT HOWEVER YOU'VE DONE EVERYONE WHO IS READING THIS THREAD A FAVOUR BY POSTING THE LINK BECAUSE THEY CAN CLICK THE LINK AND READ SOMETHING INTELLIGENT AND WORTHWHILE.

This thread isn't about development, this is about winning and coaches' egos.  This thread shows a complete lack of understanding of proper youth development.  As a development tool 3v3 should come after 4v4, not one "coach" picked up on that until I raised the point, then again maybe that's because they don't actually understand themselves.  All I've read on this thread is here's how to win.  If, as some have tried to point out, 3v3 is just fun games then why bother with tactics? goal kicks?, corners?  It's 3v3, if the ball goes out just bring it back in, I suppose a centre is taken every time a goal is scored?  You can't score from your own half.  Why not?  Just typical of adults taking over the kids game.  Kids don't need adults to organise a game of soccer for them, especially 3v3.

BTW, I wouldn't care less whether this was posted by an American, if it as posted by someone who is English, Scottish, Irish, French, Dutch, German, or anywhere else, my response would have been the same.

As for posting so much here, why shouldn't I?  My contribution is as valid as yours, in fact in the light of this topic I'd say it is more valid as it will give everyone who reads this thread something to think about, can you say the same about your responses?  I'd also point out that when this forum started I was one of the few coaches who helped to get it off the ground, go back and look at the very first topics for proof so I'll post as much, or as little, as I want to and if you don't like it then tough. 

I used to post on this this forum every day, now I look in once, maybe twice, per week, and even then I rarely post - why?  Garbage like this.  This forum used to be one of the best around, not any more.


__________________
A wise man once told me never argue with an idiot as bystanders may not be able to tell the difference.
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