Soccer coaching forum
and-again soccer forum
Register  |   |   |  Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 2 of 2      Prev   1   2
EricMcGrath

Registered:
Posts: 7,792
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tericson

Quote:
but at no point should we ever expect johnny to be able to do what billy is a natural at. if john terry hadn't been groomed as a defensive player, he wouldn't be the rock of chelsea's defense right now

 

I agree.  I wasn't stating that every player should turn into a Ronaldo. I was simply stating that everyone should be trained in the basics of taking players on 1v1. That means that even at low levels those players should be able to on occasion feel comfortable with the ball versus players of like ablilities

 

 

Quote:

We all watch a lot of pro soccer right.

 

Can everyone playing really beat people 1 v 1 on their own? No, but they can still play professionally.They just need help from team mates to beat people.

 

I don't think I've ever seen ANY professional league where the players didn't take on their opponent on occasion. Sure, some do it more than others but really.... its kind of silly to think that a professional player exists that passes it every time he gets it.

 

I would also say that those defenders that pass the ball out of the back don't do it because of a lack of 1v1 skill but more so because it's a smarter play. They might not have as much ability at it as a striker but at the same time when they do run at a striker, he won't have as much defensive ablity as the defender.

 

would it be taking on an opponent 1v1 with tricks and whatnot, or simply being able to change direction and pace with the ball? i see a lot of the former in the coaching thats done over here in the states, but very little of the latter. i'd rather have 11 players on the field who can do the latter than the former. but i think we're saying the same thing, no?

tericson

Registered:
Posts: 622
Reply with quote  #22 

Yep, I agree with you Eric.

mzbrand

Registered:
Posts: 1,739
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSoccer

"How many of us tell the "ball-hog" he'd better start passing the ball"

There are two kinds of ball hogs the one that always try to beat people 1 v 1 and hardly ever succeeds and the ones that most of the time succeeds.

The one I want to pass is the one that hardly ever succeeds.



There are two more that are important:  (1) the player who can take on 1, 2, maybe 3 1 v 1, but always looses to the next, and (2) the player who is successful at a low level of play but will get burned at a higher level if they down't learn the do something more than power-ball.

I strongly encourage my players to be confident in 1 v 1 take-ons.  But I also want them to know when it's time to pass.  With some that's more difficult than others.

scoachd

Registered:
Posts: 2,812
Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddog

 I stand on my original statement few will ever get to work with the 1 in 1000 that goes to the top of the profession. Even now US has many players in Europe but none at the top of the profession. Lots of journeymen but if you count the almost 30 toiling in Europe and divide that into the number of youth players it is easy to see most that are currently viewed as hot shots will never reach the pinnacle either. They have to have the natural ability and drive to make it in the profession, not so in college. BIG DIFFERENCE

As I often do, I was just poking at the aspect that I felt had an unnecessary negative US bias. 

 

If I were to question the the other aspects of your post, I would have said 1 in 500,000 or more depending on what you define as "top."  Your odds also depend heavily on where you coach and how many players are filtered before they get to you.  Coach in a place with a lot of talent and work with the very best select players in that area, then you are likely to get to work with some very potentially good players.  Since I'm fortunate enough to coach in Cal-South (a great area) with and be on the field with a lot of top level teams (thus concentrating a lot high potential players - though very, very few will ever become anything truly special), I'll probably get to see some kids with far more potential than many D1 college coaches that don't have top teams and are not located in soccer hot beds.  On the other hand if you coach in Ajax, Boca Jrs, Man U's youth teams, you better be coaching some or they will find some new folks to run those programs.

 

KeiththeKoach

Registered:
Posts: 2,172
Reply with quote  #25 

To steal a line from JImN, I think this bears repeating. and-again, and-again.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFB

The key to true success lies in knowing the possible, knowing the potential.

 

Not the probable, which means means likely, but the possible potential of a player.

 

What is possible lies solely within the player, and even that is not totally within their control.

 

As a coach we help the player realize what is possible by speeding the process, showing the player superior alternatives to what is otherwise "natural" to the player.  We guide them with our knowledge so the time it took others to master a technique, or even discover the skill in the first place, is shortened.

 

Not all players are alike.  Some have far superior balance.  Some are blessed genetically with greater fast twitch muscles and therefore quicker.  Some develop synapses in the brain and in local nerve nodes allowing for faster reactions, quicker perception, better spacial understanding and more accurate thought.

 

The closer you approach greatness, the more you approach the extremes, the statistical outliers.  These are people who possess not just one, but many of the physical and mental attributes needed for success.  For these, more than others, more of certain skills are possible. 

 

It takes time to train some skills to a very high level of proficiency in any single skill.  The time it takes again varies by individual.  Time used to train for some skills is lost for use in training on others.  Some abilities also cancel out potentials in other abilities.  For example, if you train for explosiveness, to increase the amount and reaction of fast twitch muscle fiber, you reduce the amount of slow twitch muscle fiber, and thus endurance.  The reverse is also true, which is why training for marathons is not beneficial for soccer players.

 

All this means you cannot by coaching alone achieve greatness.  You cannot take a random person and state you will turn them into a Maradona, a Pele, a Best, with any certainty.  If you are a good coach you can make them better, but you cannot improve them beyond what it is possible for them to be.

 

The willingness to train hard exists in the player.  So does the potential to be lazy.  A coach can motivate and help the player; but motivation means to convince, which in this case can only mean by appealing to a desire that was already in the player.  As a coach you may nurture that desire and help it grow, or you may choke it and starve it, but you never created it.

 

In short, you cannot coach "it".  You might help speed it up.  You might help someone find a path they otherwise would never have stumbled on.  Greatest, however, is in the player.

 

Greatness in coaching lies in seeing the possible that exists in a player and knowing how to develop it.  An analogy may serve.  A great coach saw the gem stone when others saw a dirty stone and polished it to brilliance.  A lesser coach picked the wrong stone or destroyed the great gem by cutting it wrong.  God, however, made the gem in the first place. 

MrSoccer

Registered:
Posts: 9,198
Reply with quote  #26 

"I strongly encourage my players to be confident in 1 v 1 take-ons.  But I also want them to know when it's time to pass.  With some that's more difficult than others."

 

it takes a lot of training for the player to become a good decision maker.

 

But if you can isolate a player who is a dangerous 1 v 1 or even 1 v 2 player enough times then he beats those guys and scores your team will win a lot of games that they should have lost or drawn with.


__________________
Only the unloved hate
GHMANEGER

Registered:
Posts: 1,121
Reply with quote  #27 

Back on to main subject does federrer has the best talent in the world for tennis I doubt it. But he had the best training environment that fit his talent. Sharapova etc.

Anyway football is much more complex, the ability to do some complex move and finish them positively is not common. I think insight is something a lot of coaches ignore. I know from my home town I LIKE the chabby players who can't run too match but alwayes have a good attitude and some times you can see them pass 3 players and score and they have insight, sure they can train physically and be much better, but insight is where the game is at at the top end.


__________________
have fun!!!

Soul is the form of all forms.
dadinsavannah

Registered:
Posts: 232
Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tericson

Quote:
but at no point should we ever expect johnny to be able to do what billy is a natural at. if john terry hadn't been groomed as a defensive player, he wouldn't be the rock of chelsea's defense right now

 

I agree.  I wasn't stating that every player should turn into a Ronaldo. I was simply stating that everyone should be trained in the basics of taking players on 1v1. That means that even at low levels those players should be able to on occasion feel comfortable with the ball versus players of like ablilities. 

 

 

Quote:

We all watch a lot of pro soccer right.

 

Can everyone playing really beat people 1 v 1 on their own? No, but they can still play professionally.They just need help from team mates to beat people.

 

I don't think I've ever seen ANY professional league where the players didn't take on their opponent on occasion. Sure, some do it more than others but really.... its kind of silly to think that a professional player exists that passes it every time he gets it.

 

I would also say that those defenders that pass the ball out of the back don't do it because of a lack of 1v1 skill but more so because it's a smarter play. They might not have as much ability at it as a striker but at the same time when they do run at a striker, he won't have as much defensive ablity as the defender.

This is exactly why I want my son to play a significant amount of defense.  He is by nature a forward, strong dribbler, good passer, and good finisher.  But his defense was a little weak.  I kept telling him that better defensive skills would give him a couple more touches a game in the attacking third, which could be easy scores for the team.  Now he is asking to play defense on a regular basis and the skills are coming around.  Something doesn't have to pay off but once for him to see the value and work on it.  I love being able to say "I told you so." for something good.

 

Bobby

Allez_Arsenal

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,100
Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadinsavannah

This is exactly why I want my son to play a significant amount of defense.  He is by nature a forward, strong dribbler, good passer, and good finisher.  But his defense was a little weak.  I kept telling him that better defensive skills would give him a couple more touches a game in the attacking third, which could be easy scores for the team.  Now he is asking to play defense on a regular basis and the skills are coming around.  Something doesn't have to pay off but once for him to see the value and work on it.  I love being able to say "I told you so." for something good.

 

Bobby

[/QUOTE

    He can play defense anywhere on the field.

 

AA


__________________
C'est Tout
dadinsavannah

Registered:
Posts: 232
Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez_Arsenal
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadinsavannah

This is exactly why I want my son to play a significant amount of defense.  He is by nature a forward, strong dribbler, good passer, and good finisher.  But his defense was a little weak.  I kept telling him that better defensive skills would give him a couple more touches a game in the attacking third, which could be easy scores for the team.  Now he is asking to play defense on a regular basis and the skills are coming around.  Something doesn't have to pay off but once for him to see the value and work on it.  I love being able to say "I told you so." for something good.

 

Bobby

[/QUOTE

    He can play defense anywhere on the field.

 

AA

You are quite right and I had been trying to get him to work harder on his defensive skills as an attacker.  But he didn't really see the problem until he was a defender and his mistakes were exposed and cost a goal or two.  When that happened he said "No more of that crap!" and started working seriously on his defensive skills.  Now he can jockey with the best of them, and that really bothers a defender trying to get the ball upfield right in his own goal's mouth.

 

I was proud that he fixed the problem by working on his skills rather than telling the coach "I'm no good at defense, can I go back to forward."  I've seen prima donna forwards do that and it really gets on my nerves.

 

Bobby

Allez_Arsenal

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,100
Reply with quote  #31 

That's great that he did it himself then

 

AA


__________________
C'est Tout
jsrsolution

Registered:
Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #32 
Keith, I agree that natural talent is something that comes from within, you either have it or you don't.For more details visit our web site soutien scolaire
jcard

Registered:
Posts: 54
Reply with quote  #33 

Great discussion, I suggest reading a book called "the talent code" by daniel coyle it discusses the fact that greatness is not born but in fact grown. It goes about debunking the myths that these prodegies exsits soley becasue they were gifted at birth by thier genoes but beacuse of certain circumstances they were all pushed to practice the right way to become experts in thier fields. Examples range from writers the bronte sisters to chess player bobby fisher and basketball's Micheal Jordan.     


__________________
Everybody Starts Somewhere...
coach112

Registered:
Posts: 14
Reply with quote  #34 

  Bright yet fun,Ray-Ban sunglasses for a fashion icon.Especially the updated Ray-Ban wayfarer sunglasses and ray ban 3025 sunglasses collections here.oakley sunglasses online store here-To pick up quality yet cheap oakley sunglasses.Take your time to indulge our discount oakley sunglasses.Ray-Ban sunglasses offers exceptional value.Ray-Ban sunglasses sale are always in style.Buy cheap Ray-Ban sunglasses here.Buy oakley sunglasses,Womens,Sport,Lifestyle,Active,Polarized Sunglasses 80% off, Fast Shipping & No Tax!

__________________
Coach Handbags
cctt

Registered:
Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #35 
As a big wow gold sellers, We have enjoyed a good reputation for safe and cheap wow gold with very quick delivery. wow gold
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

COPYRIGHT @ 2004 - 2016 AND-AGAIN, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED