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AFB

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotsoc

 

Kev, I think you are confusing me with my identical twin sister CB

 

 

 

Gawd, now that is a truly ugly picture.  Now we know what happened in the experiments that led to Dolly, the sheep. 


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Some wisdom from Winston Churchill:

"Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened."

"You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life."

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they’ve tried everything else."
CB

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotsoc

 

Kev, I think you are confusing me with my identical twin sister CB

 

 

 

Gawd, now that is a truly ugly picture.  Now we know what happened in the experiments that led to Dolly, the sheep. 

Ok...ok!!!  Sorry I said anything at all.  Go back to playing with Russ!

Scotsoc

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CB
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotsoc

 

Kev, I think you are confusing me with my identical twin sister CB

 

 

 

Gawd, now that is a truly ugly picture.  Now we know what happened in the experiments that led to Dolly, the sheep. 

Ok...ok!!!  Sorry I said anything at all.  Go back to playing with Russ!

 

There isn't any point in AFB playing with russ if you aren't playing as it takes more than two to t(ri)ango 

 

 

 


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thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #24 

What matter is the strength of the idea.  For an idea, new or old, to have strength, it must be able to withstand challenge.  Your ideas have failed to withstand challenge; you cannot answer basic questions that would lend credence to your thoughts.

 

Let's suppose we take any two models for anything.  If we're in the field of psychology, we could take a behavioral model and a Freudian model.  The behaviorist visits a website of Freudians.  They all think in Freudian terms, and evaluate everything in terms of the Freudian model.  Naturally, the behaviorist is going to have a rough go of it.  The Freudians might say things like, "How, then, do you account for the interaction between the id and the superego?" or whatever.  The behaviorist can only answer this with something that includes, "I don't think in those terms."  So, I suppose the Freudians could say, "See, he refuses to answer our clever question!"

 

But wouldn't a forum on psychology be more interesting if it included Freudians, behaviorists, and others as well?  And wouldn't we at some point be more interested in the applications of each theory, the empirical impact, than in the terms and theories chosen to get there?

 

If a Freudian were to claim, "Our principles of the ego, id, and superego are just self-evident truths."  And that's in a field that purports to be scientific.  For someone to suggest that, in a sport, there are self-evident truths (as opposed to man-made terms, constructs, and theories) is incredible.  Terms like "mobility", "penetration", "balance", and "width", as applied to soccer, are most definitely man-made constructs.

 

Clearly, though, anyone who holds these truths to be self-evident will be highly inclined to attack anyone who thinks differently.

thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #25 

Russ, remember that at the C there were looking for much more in-depth answers to the (on the surface simple) questions. In the D, you might pass with an answer like, "I would use game X to teach width". In the C, what exercise you use is only part of the story. They might want to hear not just the "what", but also the "how" (the cues to go wide, how should players make their runs, etc.) and the "why" (why is width important, why does it affect the opponents). I don't know what your full answer was, but there are far more variables to passing a coaching course than which games or exercises you use.

That's a legitimate point, Benji.  I don't remember my full answer, but my guess is it was lacking in more than one way from their point of view.  I probably added some more stuff in my terminology.  How if a team only takes the direct path to goal, that path will be very clogged.  By using the width, new avenues forward can be discovered.  And when the opposition worries about those paths, the immediate path forward also becomes more available.

 

I like your cartoon, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say with it.


AFB

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Reply with quote  #26 

Time to revive CB's comedy hour -

 

1.  How do you tell if Russ has been playing soccer?  He stumbles up to you explaining he was playing goal keeper and exclaims, "I wondered why the ball was getting bigger. Then it hit me."

 

2.  Russ takes Mr. Soccer's advise and goes to France to learn about soccer. He falls off a house boat into the river.  Floating in the water, he shouts, "Help, I'm in Seine."  Everybody nearby sighs in relief and says, "Its about time he realized it!"

 

3.  Having returned home, Russ saw the door knocker on his house for the first time.   Believing he must have invented it, he immediately left for Stockholm to claim his "No Bell" prize.  Unfortunately, he then came home again.

 

Your turn, Willie.


__________________
Some wisdom from Winston Churchill:

"Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened."

"You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life."

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they’ve tried everything else."
thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #27 

Back to you AFB.  Glad you enjoy the righteous indignation thing, and I'm happy to provide you with such opportunities.  For a minute there, I was afraid I was causing you misery.

 

You state:

 

Returning to your diversity thoughts, please consider the following:

 

1.  Are all ideas equal?

 

2.  If some ideas are superior, then what value is there in diversity simply for the sale of diversity?  Should we not accede to the superior ideas?

 

3.  If all ideas are equal, then what value is there is diversity, for any idea is as valid as any other?

 

It would seem that diversity, as a value, is worthless.

 

I have a major problem with your premises, but only a minor problem with your conclusion.

 

1.  All ideas aren't equal.  Some are clearer, more understandable, and/or lead to stronger practical outcomes.  I'll agree with you there.

 

2.  If all ideas aren't equal, shouldn't we just ccede to the superior ideas?  Here's where you get into a problem.  Different people might have different ideas about what is superior and what is inferior.  It's fine for these ideas to slug it out, as we're doing here.  Some form of test, or evidence, or empirical observation, is even better.  Repression of different ideas, based on some consensus of the majority, isn't a positive for a soccer forum I would think.  I've made what you might think is a shocking discovery.  People generally believe that their own ideas are superior, particularly when they've been preaching those ideas for a long time.

 

3.  As I said, I don't believe all ideas are equal.  However, I think all ideas should have a chance to be heard here. 

 

What I used to object to (but no longer particularly care about) is what seem to be attempts to suppress.  Now, though, I know the rules.  Attempts to suppress are okay, as long as you don't use profanity, or language that is sexist or racist.  Personal attacks, and various diagnostic maneuvers ("I'm worried that you sound a bit paranoid there") are also okay.  Telling someone to "Kxxs off" is okay, as long as you put the x's in there I guess.

 

Now, for your conclusion.  I assume you mean that diversity is worthless at soccer forums?  Or do you mean in general?  If in general, I disagree with you.  If you mean at soccer forums, I'd have to ask, "Worthless to whom?"  I sense you might prefer that everyone here accept the self-evident truth bit about the "principles."  If so, I guess diversity would be a worthless value to you.  Or, to be more semantically precise, diversity would have no value to you.  However, from the standpoint of new coaches, or creating a forum that is interesting, I would think that diversity is a plus.     

thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #28 

1.  How do you tell if Russ has been playing soccer?  He stumbles up to you explaining he was playing goal keeper and exclaims, "I wondered why the ball was getting bigger. Then it hit me."

 

On a 1-10, I'll give that a 3.  Had to think about it too much.  Then it hit me.

 

2.  Russ takes Mr. Soccer's advise and goes to France to learn about soccer. He falls off a house boat into the river.  Floating in the water, he shouts, "Help, I'm in Seine."  Everybody nearby sighs in relief and says, "Its about time he realized it!"

 

I'll begrudgingly give that an 8.  It's far preferable to your genuine attempts to diagnose, so I'm able to laugh along with it.

 

3.  Having returned home, Russ saw the door knocker on his house for the first time.   Believing he must have invented it, he immediately left for Stockholm to claim his "No Bell" prize.  Unfortunately, he then came home again.

 

Here, the quality drops to a 5.  The "no bell" thing was promising, but the execution fell apart a bit.

 

You've got me thinking about the AFB jokes, though.

thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #29 

I agree completely with the value of experiencing other models in other countries.  I'd risk the same that I did when I went to the C course.  What if I thought something out there was completely better than what I was doing?  After taking the C course, I came home the next day and ran my scheduled Thoughtful Soccer practice.  It passed the test.  I have to admit. There could be another model out there that would lead me to say, like Rosannadannadanna, "Never mind."  More likely, though, I'd still keep some things from what I do and fit them into my new preference.  This happens to me all the time in the field of counseling.  It just happened this week due to a new book I read about marital counseling. 

thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #30 

I would have to admit that, with respect to this post, I was completely wrong.  Diversity is allowed and encouraged here.  How? Through the very libral rules, and through the lack of sensorship.  So, I must give Greg credit for that.  I now feel entirely freed up to post on whatever topics I choose.  The cost, of course, is a willingness to receive large quantities of abuse, ridicule etc.  Here's what you don't realize.  I don't actually mind such things, particularly when I'm confident in my views.  What I mistakenly assumed from such treatment was that I wasn't welcomed here, and that's what was causing me confusion.  Now, I can make that fine but critical distinction between "not liked" and "not welcomed"  As long as I pass  Gregg's test for what is allowed, and make a good faith effort to advance soccer knowledge and help new coaches, I'll feel my posts are welcomed. 

 

No more of this "Please treat me in a civil fashion" game, that showed my complete ignorance of the forum's rules and thus allowed others to control me and get the upper hand.  AFB was right.  I am completely ignorant of the game.  The forum game, I mean.  It's topsy turvy now.  Me topsy, you turvy.  ("Wait Until Dark" reference)  

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Reply with quote  #31 
I hate diversity in thought. I think Orwell had it right in 1984, with his model for the perfect society.

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thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #32 

Was that the one with Big Brother in it?  I nominate AFB for the role.

Scotsoc

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFB

Time to revive CB's comedy hour -

 

1.  How do you tell if Russ has been playing soccer?  He stumbles up to you explaining he was playing goal keeper and exclaims, "I wondered why the ball was getting bigger. Then it hit me."

 

2.  Russ takes Mr. Soccer's advise and goes to France to learn about soccer. He falls off a house boat into the river.  Floating in the water, he shouts, "Help, I'm in Seine."  Everybody nearby sighs in relief and says, "Its about time he realized it!"

 

3.  Having returned home, Russ saw the door knocker on his house for the first time.   Believing he must have invented it, he immediately left for Stockholm to claim his "No Bell" prize.  Unfortunately, he then came home again.

 

Your turn, Willie.

 

I'm not falling into your trap.  you're just looking for a sucker to make up your t(ri)ango

 

 


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benji

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtsoc

They might want to hear not just the "what", but also the "how" (the cues to go wide, how should players make their runs, etc.) and the "why" (why is width important, why does it affect the opponents).

I probably added some more stuff in my terminology. How if a team only takes the direct path to goal, that path will be very clogged. By using the width, new avenues forward can be discovered. And when the opposition worries about those paths, the immediate path forward also becomes more available.

Let's continue with this train. Okay, you can find new avenues forward by using the width of the field. But your addition still tells me little about "how" and "why". Why does using width create these avenues? How are these avenues best utilized? How do you recognize cues to go wide/not go wide, and what are they? Relive your C course... use whatever terminology you want... maybe you'll pass this time. I'm even giving you hints here.


Quote:
I like your cartoon, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say with it.

Someone else wanna try and explain it to him? Russ, it relates very directly to most of what we find frustrating about your ideas.


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thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #35 

Let's continue with this train. Okay, you can find new avenues forward by using the width of the field. But your addition still tells me little about "how" and "why". Why does using width create these avenues? How are these avenues best utilized? How do you recognize cues to go wide/not go wide, and what are they? Relive your C course... use whatever terminology you want... maybe you'll pass this time. I'm even giving you hints here.

 

Why does width create these avenues?  Opposing defenders will tend to clog the direct path to goal.  That is the immediate danger.  If the path to goal is available and my team is interested in scoring, that's usually the best choice.  If my attacker with the ball has only one defender to beat enroute to the goal, that's usually the best choice.  In other words, the situation allows immediate penetration.  But what if the path forward is clogged?  An opposing defender has stopped the ball, and he also has another defender or two backing him up (providing cover).  Now, width becomes a more useful dimension.  We'll need a teammate or two in the lateral directions, and we'll  need our player with the ball to have vision in those directions.  What will this accomplish?  Those opposing defenders clogging the path to goal must make a choice.  If they spread out to attend to the width, our direct path to goal is now more open.  If they ignore the width, our wide players might have a more open path to goal upon receiving the ball.

 

It's not from my C course, though.  Maybe it was in the manual, which I probably didn't study closely enough that week.  It wasn't addressed specifically as a topic that week, if my memory serves me well.  My answers to your questions are found in the book Thoughtful Soccer.  I'll dig up the quotes if you like.

AFB

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Reply with quote  #36 

Russ,

 

This is typical of your answers.  It is better than some but it fails because yo do not answer the meat of the question.  Look again at Benji's question.  It did not just ask why, but it also asked when do we go wide and what do we use as information to make this decisions.  This is what was meant by the cues.  This you did not answer.

 

Also, you are right we want to create a dilemma for the defenders, but is there any advantage to going wide other than the creation of a dilemma?  Are there times when going wide will not create a dilemma for the defenders and will only make the job of the defenders easier?

 

There is more here that is elementary and essential to a player.  It allows the players to read and thus anticipate other players' actions.

 

Try again.  By the way this "when and why" was not in your book.

 

Also, Russ, time for some more punishment -

 

When Russ was a boy it wasn't school he disliked it was just the principal of it. 

 

And a question I know you will not answer Russ, but this time it is okay if you don't - If actions speak louder than words then why can't you hear mime artists?


__________________
Some wisdom from Winston Churchill:

"Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened."

"You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life."

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they’ve tried everything else."
AFB

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Reply with quote  #37 

As to the value of diversity, I will take your rambling post as a concession that diversity has no value in and of itself.  You agree ideas must stand and fall on their own merits. 

 

You are certainly right that people tend to value their own ideas more highly than they deserve.  It for this reason we subject our ideas to others for criticism.  If we are intellectually honest we see the flaws others point out and either point to errors in their reasoning or admit the flaws.  We do not simply repeat the faulty arguments or ignore the pointed questions; at least those named Russ Carrington do not.

 

An unrelated test for you - What do the terms "floating sink", "hereabout", "unknown star", "free trade"  and "thoughtsoc" have in common?   Wrong. The right answer is they are all oxymorons.

 

And, Russ, time for another question you do not have to answer, but one that applies to you very much - Is it possible to have too much moderation?


__________________
Some wisdom from Winston Churchill:

"Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened."

"You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life."

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they’ve tried everything else."
KeiththeKoach

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Reply with quote  #38 

Another red herring.  I refer you to my last reply on the fcbri thread re SSG support play.

 

One of these days, thoghtsoc will list HIS principles of play that gave rise to his T3 defense.  Only then will the debate be useful.

AFB

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Reply with quote  #39 

Come on Willie, I know you like to dance.

 

Try these,

 

Russ had a circular drive way installed at his house.  He couldn't get out.

 

Russ, is really a pretty clever guy, Willie.  He does have a lot of problems and he heard that if he got stoned he would forget all of them for a while.  He had a original idea.  He drank wet concrete.  Now you know why he tends to be a little dense.

 

And, now a true story about my family, honest this is true.  My grandfather was a deputy sheriff, a professional gambler, a miner and the husband of my grandmother, all in about that order.  He hunted Bonnie and Clyde, but lucky for him did not catch them. 

 

He was once in a saloon in Galena, Kansas playing stud poker.  This was in the 1890's and Galena as the name suggests was a mining town.  A pretty rough one as those things went.  Granddad had a decent hand and had bet a fair amount. 

 

A drunk came into the bar, pulled out two pistols and fired several shots into the ceiling and shouted, "I wana every shun of bitch to clear out now!"  Well, everybody but my grandfather and the drunk ran out the back door.  When they all left, except the drunk and my grandfather, my grandfather said, "I guess ya'll fold", he looked around and when nobody said anything he started to rake in the pot.  The drunk came up to my grandfather, leveled those two pistols at him and said, " I thought I shaid fer all the shuns of bitches to clear out!"  My grandfather looked around and said, "Looks like they all left.  Have a seat."  When the drunk sat down laughing, my grandfather pulled his pistol and said, "Time for us to take you to jail."

 

Some common wisdom my grandfather passed along -

 

  • Don't get mad at somebody who knows more 'n you do. It usually ain't their fault.
  • Don't trust anybody who acts like a hick or a hayseed.
  • Also, don't trust anybody who tells you to trust them - trust me on this.
  • When you're tryin' somethin' new, the fewer people who know about it, the better.
  • Never miss a good chance to shut up.

     

    The last one is real good advise, I don't follow enough. 

     

    Now, Willie, you may ask what this has to do with soccer coaching and all I can tell you is it has more to do with soccer coaching than 98.78645% of what Russ posts and is more useful, too.

     

    Now it is your turn you kilt wearin', rover.


  • __________________
    Some wisdom from Winston Churchill:

    "Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened."

    "You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life."

    "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they’ve tried everything else."
    Scotsoc

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    Reply with quote  #40 
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AFB

     

     

  • Don't get mad at somebody who knows more 'n you do. It usually ain't their fault.
  • What about someone who thinks they know more than you?  Pointing no elbows of course

     

  • Don't trust anybody who acts like a hick or a hayseed.
  • I think you only get hicks and hayseeds in the US so I don't know any hicks or hayseeds

  • Also, don't trust anybody who tells you to trust them - trust me on this.
  •  

     

  • When you're tryin' somethin' new, the fewer people who know about it, the better.
  •  

    I think you are a bit late with this advice for someone, no elbow pointing again here

     

    Never miss a good chance to shut up. 

     

    I think someone here has problems recognising the good chance, again no elbow pointing

     

     

    Now, Willie, you may ask what this has to do with soccer coaching and all I can tell you is it has more to do with soccer coaching than 98.78645% of what Russ posts and is more useful, too.

     

    An episode of the Simpsons has more to do with soccer coaching than 98.78645% of russ's posts

     

     


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