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thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #101 

The new tally:

 

1. Scotsoc: Get lost

2. TomK

3. JimN

4. CoachKev

5. BobC

6. AFB: Get lost

7. Coach Keith

8. CB

thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #102 

Persecute: To oppress or harass with ill-treatment, especially because of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs.

 

I guess that fits somewhat.  The keys would be:

 

A) Is it "ill-treatment" if the other person "had it coming", or "deserved that ill-treatment" or whatever?

 

 

coachkev

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Reply with quote  #103 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtsoc

More useless rambling.  Sorry.

 

The truth is, my evaluation of the process of posting here tends to fluctuate a great deal.  Sometimes, it seems like a valuable, enjoyable process.  Other times, I form opinions of people here that shake my faith in mankind a bit.  And at still other times, like this one, it just seems like everything that could be said has already been said.  While there is freedom of speech here, there is also a particular community of people.  If the feedback from the majority of those people is, "You bring nothing of value to the process", or, "Reading your opinions makes me want to throw up" or whatever, why would I want to impose unpleasantness on people?  I don't take it personally, because I don't think any of you know me personally.  I regret even having to discuss the personal side of things, and I'm pretty sure I only did this in response to personal attacks.  My intention was never to defeat other people, or discredit other ways of doing things.  But just to put my opinions out there.  And when what I consider my best opinions and best contributions are met with the most scorn, it does make you wonder after a while if you're in a Twilight Zone episode or something.  It takes a while to regain your balance.  Sometimes, it seems that one of the groundrules of dialoguing with me is, "Never under any circumstances concede that a positive point has been made."  If that's true, then an end to the dialogue process is inevitable. 

 

It's true that the model I adhere to is a somewhat closed and complete model.  That wasn't always the case.  But in writing my book, the gaps in my model became obvious to me and I went through this rather arduous process of filling in the gaps.  For that reason, I for the most part don't come here to learn from other people.  There are many other areas of my life in which I'm open to learning right now.  I also hope to take the next NSCAA course once my knee can stand up to it, and I always learn things at those courses.

 

But Russ, you AREN'T interested in what OTHER coaches think because your head is SO far up your own rear that your ears are blocked!!.

 

quote....

".....It's true that the model I adhere to is a somewhat closed and complete model.  That wasn't always the case.  But in writing my book, the gaps in my model became obvious to me and I went through this rather arduous process of filling in the gaps.  For that reason, I for the most part don't come here to learn from other people...."

 

Here we see Russ in his TRUE light, he's not bothered about reasoning, his symantical view of the world according to Russ excludes any progress he can make in regards to having a fuller understanding of what it is to be a soccer coach. He acts like the man who tells every father how to bring up their children when he has none himself.

 

By your own admission you adhere to a 'closed and complete model'. THAT is utter garbage and you well know it Russ. The ONLY closed part of it is your OWN mind and the ONLY complete part is your experience where you are limited to your own mediocre history.

 

Writing a book DOESNT make you a soccer coach.

Being a counsellor DOESNT make you a soccer coach.

Being preoccupied with 'Psychological Soduku games' DOESNT make you a coach.

 

How can you state that ...

quote ...

"But if nobody wants my opinion on anything, continued expression of opinions here would seem to be little more than selfish..." when you ALREADY know that your opinions are nothing more than a mirror of yourself,.... shallow, blinkered, one dimensional and devoid of FACT.

 

I DONT need to be on ANY committee to state that you would do YOURSELF a favor by finding a forum for Dysfunctional Coaches at http://www.upmyownrear.com

 

thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #104 

Kev, I can take responsibility for what's best for me.  I don't want to be a harmful influence on the process here, and I have no way of knowing this except to:

 

A.  Accept that there is a group of more experienced, knowledgable coaches than I.

 

B.  Ask them to let me know if my influence is harmful, negative, dangerous, an unwelcome distraction, whatever.

 

So, I'd still appreciate it if you'd let me know this clearly.

thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #105 

Sorry, Kev, I see you did cast your vote on that other post.  The new tally is:

 

1. Scotsoc: Get lost

2. TomK

3. JimN

4. CoachKev: Do something worse than getting lost

5. BobC

6. AFB: Get lost

7. Coach Keith

8. CB

 

We're still two votes short.

CB

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Reply with quote  #106 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtsoc

Kev, I can take responsibility for what's best for me.  I don't want to be a harmful influence on the process here, and I have no way of knowing this except to:

 

A.  Accept that there is a group of more experienced, knowledgable coaches than I.

 

B.  Ask them to let me know if my influence is harmful, negative, dangerous, an unwelcome distraction, whatever.

 

So, I'd still appreciate it if you'd let me know this clearly.

Russ-  Would you agree that when going into a conflict with somebody that you should have an anticipated outcome?  For example, when my wife confronted the PE teachers she was hoping to convince them to stop doing activities that could be harmful to students (in particular our daughter).  It would be helpful for others here to know what is your anticipated outcome in these endless debates?  What are you trying to achieve here? 

TomK

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Reply with quote  #107 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtsoc


2 : a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle

 

That could apply to me.  I've sacrificed my opportunity to join the Band of Brothers (though not life itself) for the sake of principle.  Since I meet this official definition of being a martyr, I can't be accused of having a "martyr complex" can I?  I guess you'll have to define "martyr complex" next.  
 

 

I was leaning towards Willie's voting method, i.e., just refraining from replies, effectively giving you a period of probation.  However your reaction to this thread, starting a committee and having a vote, which is partly to draw out the attention you get, IMO, is not a positive.

 

What topped it off is your ludicrous statement above in which you claim that you fit the definition of martyr so you 'can't be accused of having a "martyr complex"'.  I would have thought you would know this, but someone with a "martyr complex" believes they ARE a martyr, so your claim reinforces the assertion that you have one.  ( A real martyr is generally not accused have having a complex.)

 

From Wikipedia :

Quote:

A a person who has a martyr complex desires the feeling of being a martyr for its own sake, seeking out suffering or persecution because it feeds a psychological need.

...

A martyr complex can also be a tendency to feel that one is being singled out for persecution. It is often characterized by the belief that one's persecution is the result of exceptional integrity.

 

The second definition fits perfectly.  You annoy people until they "gang up" on you, then you use that to pat yourself on the back for standing up for your principles.

 

Here's the bottom line. Your recent posts have tipped me from a "vote by not replying" to an active "Leave for a few months" vote.

 

If you do return, I would suggest that you can improve your relationships with others by absolutely never referring to your own personal integrity or how you are standing up for your principles.  I just don't think it's relevant to most coaching topics,  though it's possible that there are exceptions.  It is not relevant to a defense of your frequent revisitation of past topics.

 

I thought of a few other suggestions but I realized I don't want to discuss them so I won't go any further.  I would encourage you to examine your behavior and ask yourself if this is what you wanted to happen.  If it's not, ask yourself what you could do differently.   Of course, if you do have a martyr complex, then you have succeeded admirably.

 

 

 

JimN

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Reply with quote  #108 
I have just suffered through the last three or four pages of this silliness, trying to catch up.

Well, I needed a laugh, and this satisfied that need, so thanks much to all.

Russ - I need a third choice - I really don't care what you do.


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JohnR

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Reply with quote  #109 

Stay around, that way I'm not the worst poster.

KeiththeKoach

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Reply with quote  #110 

Cast a Vote????

 

I abstain

and with disdain

I must exclaim

that its mundane

to inflict pain

on all who came

to learn the game

at and-again

and not Reedswain

 

 

 

 

brian41

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Reply with quote  #111 

KtK:

 

Like Guinness ... Brilliant.   

thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #112 

Russ-  Would you agree that when going into a conflict with somebody that you should have an anticipated outcome?  For example, when my wife confronted the PE teachers she was hoping to convince them to stop doing activities that could be harmful to students (in particular our daughter).  It would be helpful for others here to know what is your anticipated outcome in these endless debates?  What are you trying to achieve here? 

 

That's kind of like asking, "What are your motivations?" is it not?  Motivations are a constantly shifting thing.  I might say something in one post because it's what I believe will be most helpful.  I might say something later because I don't like being pressured not to speak up.  Next, I might say something because I'm giving feedback to someone else whose logic I find faulty.  One's motivations are quite often something one can only guess at.  And at a soccer forum, I don't think it' required that one have this or that motivation, or that one be entirely clear about his/her motivation.

 

As for outcomes, these can't be controlled where other people are concerned.  Generally, though, I've had positive experiences in debates in other settings.  The difference is that those involved direct face-to-face contact.  It's much easier to express mutual respect, to find areas of agreement, to concede good points to the other side, an so on.  At this forum, and in most forums I would think, any debate seems to involve higher stakes.  There seems to be a real disincentive to acknowledge errors in one's thinking.  My guess is that I do this more than most people, but I tend not to commit to a view until I'm pretty sure it makes sense.

thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #113 

1. Scotsoc: Get lost

2. TomK: Get lost

3. JimN: could care less

4. CoachKev: Get lost (or something worse)

5. BobC

6. AFB: get lost

7. Coach Keith: could care less

8. CB

9. Eric (recently elected to the committee)

 

With Eric recently elected to the committee, making nine, we're still one vote short of a majority.   

coachkev

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Reply with quote  #114 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtsoc

1. Scotsoc: Get lost

2. TomK: Get lost

3. JimN: could care less

4. CoachKev: Get lost (or something worse)

5. BobC

6. AFB: get lost

7. Coach Keith: could care less

8. CB

9. Eric (recently elected to the committee)

 

With Eric recently elected to the committee, making nine, we're still one vote short of a majority.   

 

Oh pleeeaaase.............its Monty Python time....

 

10. God...(Couldnt give a s**t either way because Russ is in a class of his own)

TomK

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Reply with quote  #115 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtsoc

1. Scotsoc: Get lost

2. TomK: Get lost

3. JimN: couldn't care less

4. CoachKev: Get lost (or something worse)

5. BobC

6. AFB: get lost

7. Coach Keith: couldn't care less

8. CB

9. Eric (recently elected to the committee)

...

jamie_2002

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Reply with quote  #116 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtsoc

Russ-  Would you agree that when going into a conflict with somebody that you should have an anticipated outcome?  For example, when my wife confronted the PE teachers she was hoping to convince them to stop doing activities that could be harmful to students (in particular our daughter).  It would be helpful for others here to know what is your anticipated outcome in these endless debates?  What are you trying to achieve here? 

 

That's kind of like asking, "What are your motivations?" is it not?  Motivations are a constantly shifting thing.  I might say something in one post because it's what I believe will be most helpful.  I might say something later because I don't like being pressured not to speak up.  Next, I might say something because I'm giving feedback to someone else whose logic I find faulty.  One's motivations are quite often something one can only guess at.  And at a soccer forum, I don't think it' required that one have this or that motivation, or that one be entirely clear about his/her motivation.

 

No-- outcomes don't equal motivations

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtsoc

As for outcomes, these can't be controlled where other people are concerned.  Generally, though, I've had positive experiences in debates in other settings.  The difference is that those involved direct face-to-face contact.  It's much easier to express mutual respect, to find areas of agreement, to concede good points to the other side, an so on.  At this forum, and in most forums I would think, any debate seems to involve higher stakes.  There seems to be a real disincentive to acknowledge errors in one's thinking.  My guess is that I do this more than most people, but I tend not to commit to a view until I'm pretty sure it makes sense.

no-- actual outcomes don't equal anticipated outcomes

 

Unanswered question: what are you trying to accomplish?

 

(Note: I don't care about answer, just enjoying the rhetorical moves-- pure fun

CB

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Reply with quote  #117 

Russ- Please take a breath and go back and read my question again.  It is a simple question with even an example to help you understand what I am asking.  It would help the rest of us understand why you post the way you do on this forum if you were to answer the question honestly.

thoughtsoc

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Reply with quote  #118 

Russ-  Would you agree that when going into a conflict with somebody that you should have an anticipated outcome?  No, I woudn't agree with this.  For example, when my wife confronted the PE teachers she was hoping to convince them to stop doing activities that could be harmful to students (in particular our daughter).  It would be helpful for others here to know what is your anticipated outcome in these endless debates?  What are you trying to achieve here?  Your question assumes that I'm trying to achieve something, which in turn assumes I have a hope that something can be achieved.  Neither is true, so I guess you get to accuse me again of dodging the question.

 

Here's a question you might try asking me:  "If a miracle happened, and this dialogue process here went as well as you could possible hope, what would things be like afterward?  How would you know it had gone well"  That's the kind of question that solution-focused therapists ask, and I could easily answer it.

 

I'll be gone for most of the day, though. 

 

 

CB

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Reply with quote  #119 

Well Russ... I guess my anticipated outcome is that you would have an anticipated outcome.  So can you answer this question...  As you have no anticipated outcome or desired result in continuing this dialogue, can we all just assume you love to argue and will do anything to continue this argument? 

CVAL

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Reply with quote  #120 

Russ,

 

You are a bad coach and harmful to the kids. Leave this forum and stop coaching. The kids will win.

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